Thursday, May 24, 2007

The greenhouse photo

Remember the greenhouse photo ? The only photo released showing that Kurt Cobain is dead ... Well beside the fact that Kurt's face is not shown you can see a hand in the photo.
As zeitgesit said for a 3 days old dead body the hand is too thin ... The hand should be more thick because "when someone dies, the body starts to swell up, and it swells too much and it also starts to rot with green stains"
Well guys, this is one more fact that shows Kurt has staged his death and he is now safe and sound , enjoying his life

108 comments:

Anonymous said...

I think,it was more than running away from the publicity.I think he was in fear of his own life;and being "publicly dead" helped him to ruh away from the danger and fear.I feel that now he is living his own life,and on this "stage death",cops helped him too,of course.And the reason that Courtney still doesnt get arrested in spite of all the proofs,is this:you cant arrest someone who didnt kill somebody!Of course it looks like there is a guilt but nobody is dead.Thats why she cant go in jail.I guess someone was threatening Kurt about killing him,or maybe even someone tried.Because only a man who wants to protect his own life can go and buy a rifle.If you wanna kill yourself you go and buy a gun,or you take drugs,or throw yourself from a building.You dont go and buy a rifle.

Boddah said...

You know ... you have a point here ... If you just wanna die you go and buy a gun ... Why Kurt bought a riffle I just don't know ... Maybe he was in fear of his life ... But I say again , staging his death he got away from all his problems and fears ... I mean who threatens a dead man right ?

Anonymous said...

If we are right about this,I really wonder how police department accepted to give the media a false&fiction story like this.And all those death certificates and papers and stuff about this incident are fake then.Maybe this is a protection way of cops,for the people whose life are in danger,I dont know.

Boddah said...

Yeah ... like witness protection program of the FBI ... The deception and lies are always used by the police and FBI to protect it's witnesses ... Why not for Kurt ?

Anonymous said...

I agree with you boddah.Why not?It's for safety..

Anonymous said...

Good point...
I know a man, who really staged his death ( It's my uncle ), and the cops helped him to 'hide' him. He have a new face now, a new name, a new identity, so maybe the cops helped Kurt to... I really hope that he is still alive! I miss his music...

Anonymous said...

No man... I think he died all right? You just must accept it, I know it´s painful cuz obviously you or everybody loved him, but when someone dies you can´t do anything. Stop it, he´s dead.

Anonymous said...

Is he burned,, ? of burried?

Anonymous said...

lol

Anonymous said...

I'm sure he is alive.Because nobody is reopening the case in spite of the incident is full of every fucking suspicious details like heroin level,courtney's contradictory words and lies.And why isn't he buried?Why he is buried?Why doesnt he have a grave?Because same shit would have happened like happened to Jim Morrison's grave.Fans would even try to dig the grave.And they would encounter an empty grave..

Anonymous said...

btw,, my name is Morrison ;)
but, my uncle is alive,, i was the guy who's uncle staged his death...
i see him every month,, in a forrest ;)

Anonymous said...

Why did your uncle did that Morrison?What was he running away from?

Anonymous said...

Well, people also think Elvis is still alive, in a great island ;-)
By the way... who was then the man in the floor in the house? Who was killed then?
On my opinion, he is dead (as Elvis), but it's really great thinks the other way. Btw, Courtney has Frances' custody. In fact, she was gonna lose her months ago for some incidents... but she has got her...
Answers?

Anonymous said...

Actually, in my opinion, whoever was that, lying on the floor, wasn't dead.I think that photo was taken to give to the press.But the strange thing is, how could that so called electrician see Kurt up above the garage?You know, the greenhouse was on the garage.How could he even see the letter, and he said "it was ending with i love you i love you".How could he see the blood if there was blood?What did he do?Did he climb above the garage?I don't believe what anyone says about this case, because it smells dirty as you see.Cops closed the case right away,even there were lots of suspicious details about the scene.And they lied about the french door to Tom Grant.They said the door was locked but it later became obvious that door was not locked, Grant found it out.And they didn't show the photos of the crime scene to Grant.Why?Because there was no photo.It's impossible for a case like this to get closed in just a few days...if there's not something dirty.

Anonymous said...

But if you're right... why people has not set a kind of... dunno... demonstration? I mean, if the case were so strange, anybody else would have talked.

For safety, police would have hire bodyguards, they wouldn't have design this story of yours.

Anonymous said...

By the way, the reason why there is no photographs of Kurt's face is the same reason why there is no photographs of dead and/or burning people on the 11th September, 2001.

Anonymous said...

Well the police departments do that.If they did for Kurt it wouldnt be the first time."Stage death" is a very common thing, u know.And the case is so wrong, thats what Tom Grant has been talking about for a whooping 13 years.He is a private investigator and he has to speak with proofs.I dont know what he thinks but I think he must have thought about this side of the case too, I think.But he surely cant go in public and say "I think he might be still alive".He is an investigator, and people may want some proof if he says smthng like that.That may even ruin his own career.And about the photos..You gave a funny example with 11 september.That was a terror attack.But we even can see dead soldier pictures from Iraq and we can find Kennedy's dead pictures, with his brains out..Even morgue pics of Marilyn Monroe..And many others..You can find pictures of all dead celebrities, excepting Kurt Cobain.IT IS STRANGE THERE IS NO PHOTO OF KURT.It always leaks to internet somehow.Many celebrity dead pics leaked.But no pic of Kurt.

Anonymous said...

You are supporting your theory with weak proofs.
There are lot of photographs of Kurt's head (just an example, go down here: http://www.sshep.com/kurtnew.htm). They are possibly faked photos, but they could also be true. As the photos of Kennedy or Mar. Monroe.

Anonymous said...

Btw, I've found this:
http://www.deathofkurtcobain.com/FAQ.html

In the question "Was Kurt's head actually "blown off"?", at the end, says:"Although, drawn and slightly distorted due to the beginning effects of decomposition,
Kurt's facial features were all left intact and recognizable. He was finger printed for identification as a matter of procedure, not necessity as was falsely reported in the press."

Anonymous said...

He wasn't finger printed for identification.They had him fingerprinted to compare his fingerprints with the prints on the shotgun.And everyone knows it.I think you are coming with weak theories, and this one shows you don't know anything about this case.

Anonymous said...

http://www.cobaincase.com/events.htm#1

Anonymous said...

I don't know much about the case (as all of you), I am just trying to believe your theory. The paragraph I cuoted said Kurt's face was identifiable, something logic if the shout was through his mouth.
And I thought the gun was clean, no fingerprints, so what did police want Kurt's fingerprint for if there was nothing to compare with?

There is a difference between proofs to state he is not dead and proofs to state he is alive.

Anonymous said...

Even if he is still alive, there's nothing we can proove here.If everything that police department and press said was a lie, and if he faked his death and enjoying his new life etc., there's no way to proove it.He still might be alive, yeah, boddah is right.But so what?What can we do?We can't proove anything.No way.

Anonymous said...

convincing

Anonymous said...

He's dead.) er..

MaFe42 said...

where can i find this foto? i heard about it but i never saw the foto.

MaFe42 said...

where can i find this foto? i heard about it but i never saw it...

rachel said...

hey
i really really hope that kurt is somewhere enjoying himself. i did a massive debate about this topic for an english debate. i did a lot of research adn reading up, and the investigation was an absolute pisstake. totally unconvincing. nothing adds up at all.
maybe im not totally convinced hes alive though i would hope so, but i certainly dont think he killed himself! mr simon amstell himself said it!

rachel said...

just google the photo you should get it.

Anonymous said...

several things: 1)they took fingerprints because there were some fingerprints on the gun, but they were unlegible. 2)theres a possibility he fooled the cops, too. 3)youre right. why are there no pics? and how come the electrician only saw part of the note with all that time. it all seems very fishy to me... its worth looking into.

Anonymous said...

and why take the photo from that angle. they said that the face was slightly distorted but completely recognizable, so why not show his face?

Anonymous said...

Kurt said multiple times that he was pretty sick of the adoring fans thinking that he was some sort of God. Fame can drive any man nuts, and since Kurt wasn't suicidal, and very intelligent, it seems like something that could very well be a possibility.

Anonymous said...

in addition to my last comment, he said he didn't want to spend the rest of his life as a grunge rocker, doing drugs and trying to run. He explained that he would love to live somewhere isolated where he could play his acoustic guitar.

Anonymous said...

Police may have cooperated with him.You know, sometimes cops do things like "witness protection program" or something..They may have fooled the media.And you know, Courtney knew Seattle Police Department cops very well, even the autopsy experts, like Nikolas Hartshorne.No matter what the crime scene looked like, a cop will always investigate if he finds out a suicide victim with a 3 time lethal dose.If they did not, it is only suspicious.It is not impossible for Kurt to be faked his own death, it is possible..And I read the stuff that Courtney said, "Kurt has millions of houses on his name all over the America.". It is not a lie, if you search for his name on the peoplesearch.com or whitepages.com, you will see that there are lots and lots of Kurt Cobain all over America.The strangest thing is, I remember that Kurt once said in an interview that he searched for all the Cibains around the America, and he is the only Kurt Cobain that is living in America.

Anonymous said...

People searching sites proove that Courtney is not lying about Kurt having hundreds of houses all over America.She was talking about a fraud, I dont know if a fraud really happened or not, but it is true that he has addresses under his own name all over USA.It is strange.

Anonymous said...

http://www.cobaincase.com/

Anonymous said...

No.) He's dead and I'll assure you
enjoying his life?



HE BLEW HIS FUCKING HEAD OFF.)




RAWR.

Anonymous said...

You obvoiusly havnt seen the photo that was released that showed kurt with his head blown off. I dont doubt that his death wasnt suspicous nor do i believe he is still alive. Perhaps he is hanging out with tupac shakur.

Anonymous said...

The whole case is completely based on nothing no one can prove he is dead. Also no one can prove he is alive but there is one thing and that is that Kurt Cobain did not commit suicide

Grungeisnotdead said...

http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg106/fallinxxxtearsxx/?action=view&current=kchomicide1.gif






and read the whole page it's not like he's going to come out and say BOO anymore.

The officer to do the report on Kurt Cobain a few years later he was out on a job and gunned down while working some say it's because he'd known Courtney love and he knew too much and of course he was also the man to write the whole page this whole blog you've got running right now is total trash.
you know If Frances and Courtney have access to the web be careful one of them could find this very wrong and Courtney isn't afraid to sue as well."

Grungeisnotdead said...

http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg106/fallinxxxtearsxx/?action=view&current=kchomicide2.gif



http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg106/fallinxxxtearsxx/?action=view&current=kchomicide3.gif



K the whole report is here.

Anonymous said...

it could not have been staged when there is a valid death certificate. See it at findadeath.com

Anonymous said...

blah! hes dead stop with all these conspiracys even if he staged it dont you respect him enough to stop meddling around? firgensnoutchskin blah blah blah blah

Anonymous said...

his face wasn't shown because the faces of corpses are rarely exposed to the public. they may be shown on CSI but not real crime shows with real murders, let alone photographs. also, if it wasn't his body, then who was cremated?

Anonymous said...

I bin countin dirty money since 12:30 AM

Anonymous said...

he had a shotgun wound to the head thats why they didn't show his head it was messed up he was definally eather murdered or suside

Anonymous said...

Please accept it. Kurt killed himself. For every celebrity death, there are a million theories, a million people reading waaaay too much into it. Is it really that hard to consider that it may have just actually happened the way it was reported ? He was a manic depressive with a history of suicide in his family and he was having an extremely hard time, not just with his life, but with heroin addiction. He wasn't thinking clearly and was feeling desperate. Maybe thats just the way it was and thats what he did. Why is it so hard to believe?

Anonymous said...

if youtype in world of death you can find a couple photos of people with their heads blown off by a shoot gun so the wound is not the reason for not having photos but he is dead and love killed him. money walks and shit talks.

Anonymous said...

Guys.
You can't seriously believe that he faked his death?
I mean that's insane!
You just have to accept that he's dead.
If he is alive then good. I'm glad you think so..
But i'm sorry to say that there is no way he is alive..
&&&&&& CAN SOMEONE SEND ME THE PIC OF KURT'S HEAD BLOWN OFF. (FAKE PIC) I'm just curious of seeing it..
My email is cat.dog53@yahoo.com
THANK YOU

Anonymous said...

Strike a pose, thats all it was or that hand would have looked horrid and brains would have splattered and yes it would have been evident!
a set for a movie is what i saw!

Anonymous said...

OOOOOOOO............







PPSSSSHH TY.. THAT'S MUST BE LIKE.. A DAMN BRAIN... TUMOR... OR SOMETHING..



>OG. TELL ME THE TRUTH.

Anonymous said...

From his ex girlfriend.




First of all as he was growing up, he would say I'm going to become a Rock star take drugs and shoot myself with my own gun, I'm sorry/ONLY A FOOL WOULD WASTE THERE TIME WITH A BLOG AS HE'S STILL ALIVE.?? HE HATED THE FAME HE HATED THE FANS, AND HE FUCKING HATED HIS OWN WIFE.
STUPID FUCKER. ONLY DEAD MEN DON'T PULL THE TRIGGER.
THE, PHOTO'S ARE REAL, AND HE'S DEAD.


>???> MMHM.. MUST BE HIS WIFE'S FUCKING BLOG... FACE IT COURTNEY HE'S DEAD.

Anonymous said...

His maybe alive! ;-)

Anonymous said...

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Anonymous said...

So sorry to burst your bubble there guys (and mine of course) but don't forget that he was a heavy drug user which can contribute to the fact that he could of looked so skinny because of his substance abuse.

Anonymous said...

I believe he is still alive. he had alot of shit going on in his life and it is possible to pay people to fake your death. look at the greenhouse pics too. theirs no way you can shoot your self in the head with a shotgun and not spray blood everywhere theres no blood in the pics. cas closed hes out their somewhere.

Anonymous said...

Ok. First off, many valid points have been made. I believe he's passed on, but I don't think he killed himself. Courtney Love has a history. She payed a man to beat up her first husband and offered another man 50 grand to kill Cobain. The man refused and told about it in an interview after Kurt died. A few days after saying so, he died too (supposedly he was drunk and stumbled onto train tracks). Also, even the weakest 20 guage cartridge will make an exit wound. if you read some of the police reports you will find that there was enough heroin in his system that he'd have been unable to pull the trigger himself. There were puncture marks on the inside of both elbows. The chronic drug use would explain him being skinny after three days of death instead of swelling. But I also believe that the electrician was sent to ensure Kurt was dead. Otherwise he wouldn't have gone thru the trouble of going up to the greenhouse. He also wouldn't have read any of the note or looked around. He would have panicked and called the cops. The placement of the cartridge also supports me. Why would the shell be on the opposite side of the ejection port? His hand had the barrels shape imprinted on it. Holding the gun that tightly wouldn't have allowed it to spin without causing damage. And lastly: consider that as said, the only implication of suicide in the note was written after he signed. A friend of cobains states that he was due to go visit him two weeks after the week he died to record seperately and leave the company he was with. Why would he kill himself of he planned on getting out of the business anyway?

Catpad said...

you might think that this is so stupid but a few years ago i saw a guy on a coffe shop.. and i was lookin at him and i was thinking that "i know that guy but who is he?"

he was look like he was like 35-40 years old.. and i'm way younger than that so i really didn't could know him...

i wasn't stareing or anything... but then he looked at me and i looked right back to him..

And then i realized "oh he looks just like an older Kurt Cobain, with shorter hair", and i said it to my friend and she agreed.

Then he looked right back at me and i don't know what happend but he became very uncomfortable..i wasn't stareing, and i didn't said that out loud!

Then he got up (really fast) and he seemed that he wanted to hide from someone.. he was looking around but at the same time he was traying not to call attention.. it was really strange :S

This really got me thinking that maybe he is not dead.. and that maybe it was him that i saw.. i don't know.. that was really stange!

plz tell me your oppinion!

glo said...

I wish your words were true. But it's so painfully obvious that he ended his life. He was too sensitive to this fucking world.

Anonymous said...

I am guessing that the hand isn't swollen because he was in a greenhouse/garage in early April. I don't think a greenhouse would be heated, so if not, it would still be pretty cold. The weather isn't freezing in Seattle, but still cold enough that it would slow down decomposition/swelling perhaps. Does anyone know who took the two greenhouse photos? Are they from the press or police photos?

Anonymous said...

Why would he kill himself of he planned on getting out of the business anyway?

For legendary status and truck loads of money! thats why you here all of the stories...there has to be a STORY, also MYSTERY must be present to keep us PAYING attention!

Anonymous said...

You are mistaken. Let's discuss it. Write to me in PM, we will communicate.

Anonymous said...

he killed himself because he was a heroin addict in a bad relationship who didn't enjoy his career anymore. is this for real? people are making money off of the conspiracy stories by writing books about it, etc. that's why they are around. there's no big mystery here. i'm sure you could look at any suicide and turn little details that don't make sense into a "murder" or whatever. the cops did a messy job because it was an obvious suicide, they moved things, they closed the case, it looks suspicious. dylan and tom didnt check the greenhouse because it just didnt occur to him. he probably didn't think it was as serious as it was at the time. courtney love didn't kill kurt for money, and to boost album sales. how would she know he would sell more records? she would have gotten half or more plus a huge amount to take care of their child in a divorce (whom she would have custody of because the mother nearly always does, plus kc was a known heroin user who wasn't clean).
i've never read anything that has convinced me it wasn't a suicide. Just small facts that don't make sense on a small level. shit happens. tom grant got hired for this case, and grabbed onto it when he realized that he was the only one who saw some things first hand and could talk about it without feeling bad. police can't talk about it and any other people who saw first hand feel so bad about him dying that they wouldn't try to become famous or profit from it because they were friends and family. saying that he is alive is the most ridiculous of all. he had an open casket funeral. his family saw him. i saw elvis at fucking starbucks, how does that sound?

Anonymous said...

More precisely does not happen

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Anonymous said...

wrong the body was a day old

Anonymous said...

U WANNA KNOW WHY HIS HAND WAS SO THIN!?!?! ITS BECAUSE HE HAD A DISORDER WITH HIS STOMACH WHICH MADE HIM SKINNER!!!! HE WEIGHED 92 POUNDS LESS THEN THE AVERAGE NON-FAT MAN.
WHO EVER WROTE THIS BLOG IS JUST A DUMBASS WHO CANT GET OVER THE FACT THAT THE MAN HAD PROBLEMS. UR LIKE THE PEOPLE WHO STILL THINK ELVIS IS ALIVE.

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Anonymous said...

well i think that kurt cobain faked his death and after years went and got plastic surgery a lil bit and became puddle of mud they look a like a lil and in some songs sound alike weres glasses wierd hats and puddle of mudd sings kurt cobains songs you can look them up on you tube well thats just my opinion

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Anonymous said...

Some persons say that the face of kurt in summer destroyed by impact of the bullet, other say it's just on left for me 2 are wrong! a bullet of gun as that of kurt cannot make so much damage nor so not much
Then if you look at the right hand on the photograph in the not rather white or blue conservatory his hand n 'est as that d 'un body died for 3 days
They know all that kurt did not support any more the world of music and mass media, and when they have so much d 'argent they can disparaitre as they want, I think that tom grant serves for blurring the lanes of the production of the suicide, and that not died cobath n 'est kurt April 5th, 1994..
I think that c 'est it on the photograph in the conservatory, to make dying during some minutes it's easy, and kurt had recorded a film when he was 12 years old, they can see the taste of the production qu 'il has had already in this age.
I love nirvana and I do not try to sâlir the life of kurt j 'ai always the same respect for him, but aprés to believe everything in a wrong suicide would bring us more answers to our questions than to believe in a murder or a true suicide, therefore I am d 'accord, kurt n 'est perhaps not died in Seattle in 1994...

For end, what's the name of last place where nirvana play ???? "the terminal"...... (:-p)

Sorry for my english i'm french..

Anonymous said...

Person above me:

Maybe you are Kurt Cobain ;)

Or maybe you know him or where he is now ;)

Do you think its wierd that Kurt Cobain have houses all over usa?Why those houses are on his name if he is dead?
Why they are not on Courtneys name?

Anonymous said...

Answer for person above (me 4juny, you 5juny):

if you talk to me, you're right that's strange :-)
If i was kurt do you think i said "yes" ?? lol
But the origins of cobain family are dutshland, england, scottland, ireland and... french !! (:-p) maybe he's in europe i don't know but if i was kurt, i was leave definitly the USA, i can't believe we can suicide when we have millions $, every womens we want, succes, and a wonderfull little girl..
But That could make disparaitre kurt to part?? Many of his(her) fans lived only for the grunge, kurt wanted to play the accoustique, that includes, when you make of the grunge since the adolescence, when you has 27ans you wants the other thing(matter), but many fan would not have liked.
Maybe that he wanted disparaitre because he was afraid of becoming hasbeen and because it was necessary to find a solution which would arrange(settle) all the people, and I believe that he found the best...

Anonymous said...

Nirvana's last show was on March 1, 1994 at Terminal 1 in Munich, Germany.
Concert only lasted 80 minutes (one of the shortest shows from the tour). Kurt Cobain had a sore throat and eventually lost his voice during the show due to bronchitis. After this show the rest of the tour was cancelled.
Two days later on March 3, 1994, Kurt Cobain "overdosed" in a hotel in Rome.

Kurt had slipped into a pharmacological coma due to a combined effect of alcohol (champagne) and the tranquilizers (Rohypnol) which had been prescribed by a doctor for Courtney Love, his coma was not due to narcotics.
Gold Mountain (Nirvana's managment) then issued a statement that Kurt had suffered an accidental overdose. After being released on March 8th, Kurt flew home to Seattle on March 12th.


So,do you think this 'overdosing' in Rome was real or fake?

And the airport ,name is TERMINAL...hm.....Do you think it is just a coincidence?Or everything was planned ?

Anonymous said...

If you know the history(story) of kurt as me, you know that in this affair(case) there are only coincidences and the more we look for answers, the less we find there.
If all these coincidences were the true, everything is clear ;-) kurt left indications in his story and his lyrics for people like us I am persuaded, as a sense of guilt, as somebody who leaves a letter of suicide..
I think that the overdose of rohypnol was an amorçe to justify its "suicide" or then it is just an accident, but that changes nothing my opinion...

Anonymous said...

I am not much younger than Kurt,I am sad that I never had a chance to see Nirvana live,they never played in my country. I respect Kurt's music and the way he show his emotions through songs is very unique,and the colour of his voice,when i listen I feel like I know him personaly,its like I can feel his pain and his wounds on my own skin,I am also artistic ,and had bad childhood too,I feel close to his soul,but I am still fighting my demons,sometimes I am too weak to keep fighting and I fall,but music saves me every time.
I think Courtney is the most happiest woman in this planet,she was Kurt's Love.
I wish he is alive,that would make me happy,to know that he is good,living his life the way he wanted.
But I will never know the truth is he alive now or not,and I will die not knowing the truth :(


Mistery goes on...

Anonymous said...

Dylan knows more as he said...
Like than he and Grant searched for Kurt in the night of april 7. Dylan called Courtney to find out how to come into the house. At this call Rosemary Carroll heared how Courtney told Dylan to look also at the greenhouse. But Dylan missed to inform Grant about that. So maybe Dylan already knows that something terrible happened to Kurt.

Anonymous said...

My cousin killed himself, and due to that, the police had to hold his body a bit longer than normal. My cousin killed himself on a Thursday night, and he wasn't brought back home until the following Wednesday. On the Tuesday he was embalmed-He hadn't swollen up like that prior. At all in fact.
Kurt was found dead in the greenhouse-A small room above his garage. That room wasn't heated, and it was April-which would have kept the body cold-Like undertaker conditions...

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Anonymous said...

your stupid man,Kurt Cobain is dead, just accept the fact, I know you love him, so do I and a billion other people, he was a great musician we know, But he's gone.

Anonymous said...

your stupid man,Kurt Cobain is dead, just accept the fact, I know you love him, so do I and a billion other people, he was a great musician we know, But he's gone.

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whatlivemom said...

think,it was more than running away from the publicity.I think he was in fear of his own life;and being "publicly dead" helped him to ruh away from the danger and fear.I feel that now he is living his own life,and on this "stage death",cops helped him too,
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ThaoNgat said...

I think,it was more than running away from the publicity.I think he was in fear of his own life;and being "publicly dead" helped him to ruh away from the danger and fear.I feel that now he is living his own life,and on this "stage death",cops helped him too,of course.And the reason that Courtney still doesnt get arrested in spite of all the proofs,is this:you cant arrest someone who didnt kill somebody!online shopping
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Anonymous said...

Kurt MIGHT still be alive.

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Chuck Norris said...

lol you're crazy a'f go to a hospital... Kurt's head had been off his body for almost 19 years.

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Maria Lourdes Cristobal said...

rumors has it that someone was using kurt's credit card even after the day that his body was found,,, hehe..."maybe" it was kurt who's using it? ;) ahhh..just a glimpse in my mind... ;)

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